Our Macabre Family Tree

[trader]

I just did this one afternoon one I was bored. I was surprised myself by what it turned into.

cegabq, I used Visio to create the drawing, with some customization.

[cegabq]

cegabq, I used Visio to create the drawing, with some customization.

Ah -

[JaZzi]

Well, trader, you outdid yourself - again.

B/ you asked - and I know, I'm going on and on about this thing - I think, there's a big difference to whether you are a Master or a Master of your own line. So downgrading Patra was the absolut right thing to do (for me). Glad you kinda agree with me, but I'd also like to hear what the others think on that. I'll gladly have a discussion on that one, persuade somebody else that I'm right, or, for that matter, be persuaded to believe somebody else is.

The human lineage chart was an awesome idea. Looks right, too. (:

Big thank you for doing this - again - b/ even if I re-read all of Jeaniene's books, like, a gazillion times, this tree helps me to keep things in line and sometimes, when I keep thinking about C&B on and on, I look it up and well, just keep thinking, comparing and stuff, which isn't only fun, but also helps to figure out things. Okay, that sounds just.. weird.. xD

[trader]

Thanks Jazzi! This is how I am interpreting it... might have to ask J if this is right..

Master of line -- vamp who has been released by his sire and is able to collect money from his vamps as head of his/her line. So Spade for example, in FDOC shows he is the master of his line

Master vampires -- vamps that exhibit enhanced powers. So in HTTG/OFITG, Bones has some impressive powers, but he is still beholden to Ian until the end when he asks to be released.

I have no clue if I have that interpretation right, but that's just how I'm looking at it for the purposes of the diagram. Sometimes its just in the little things that others say.

what do you think? does that make sense? Or am I off my rocker (oh, maybe I don't want you to answer that.. )

[wonttorit]

trader: I think your definitions are close, but Bones was both a Master and Master of his own line. Even though he had not been formally released by Ian until the end of OFITG, he told Cat they had an understanding, whatever that means. When Bones stood to leave, Cat was shocked at how many people stood with him. And that was just those of his line who were in attendance. I suppose Ian could have tried to claim those vampires as his, but he would have to fight Bones to do so.

[trader]

Well, I think you are right wont, but I think he was a Master before he asked Ian for his release, and once he did, he could take all the vamp he created with him as part of his line. I guess I look at it like a family tree, when he broke away from Ian, he took everyone "below him". I'm basing that on this comment... when Cat is meeting with Mencheres the first time in OFITG.

"You have no Master claiming you under their line," Bones replied in an even tone. "You remember I told you vampires operated under a form of feudalism? When one vampire changes another, they take that person under their protection, and conversely, so does the head Master. But you weren't changed-you were born, so no vampire's ever claimed responsibility for you. That makes you without a Master to defend you against any outside attack."

"So just killing Max once I find him could set off a full-out war with Ian's people, like there aren't already enough problems with your horny sire to begin with."

Bones nodded. "Which is why I'm going to change your status in the vampire world. I'll claim you under my protection, but first I'll need to break free from Ian's line. Otherwise, anything I claim as mine is also his, since he's head of our line. That's why we're meeting with Mencheres. Ian would be a damn sight less likely to
retaliate against me if Mencheres chooses to ally himself to my side."

I found the use of "head Master" interesting too. So I guess what I'm trying to say that Bones was a master, but he did not come to be a master of his own line until Ian released him?

And later he says to Mencheres..

"I'm leaving Ian's line," he announced. "Ian wants her, and she wants to murder one of his people, so you can see why I need to shirk my loyalties to him and be head of my own line."

okay, so maybe we are talking apples and apples or oranges or oranges or some sort of fruit salad, but you just gave me an excuse to go read that Mencheres scene.. *sigh*

[JaZzi]

True, wont, but I also think that Bones' case was a rare one at that. I'd say that in general we can agree on what trader said and can go by her definition, and if it wasn't for the "understanding" between Bones & Ian, there'd also be an obvious distinction between Masters and Masters of their own line in that one special case. Sure, he kinda managed his own line, but all of them kinda do, as long as they have their own children. Look at it that way: even if he can claim Annettes children as his own, first and foremost they're still hers and "in dept" to her. I think there's always some kind of independence after you sired your first vamp. (:

So, to me, all of the above makes sense.

Thanks for the quotes btw. Maybe I have to look them up in the actual book and spend some quality time with my favourite vamps.

[wonttorit]

No argument from me. I definitely agree he was a Master before being formally released by Ian.